January 15, 2020 at 8:54 pm #6097
I got away for faceting having achieved my goal of being on the American team competing at the Olympics of gemcutting the Australian International Challenge and for the last 5 years or more I have been building audio amplifiers. I have built more than 40 with 15 or more being tube amplifiers built just from a schematic with the technique of point to point. Compared to an electronic schematic a facet diagram is no more than child’s play. It is insulting to me for members here to challenge my ability to read a Gemcad diagram any worse than they can. I am in good company with Dan Lynch waiting for clarification from the committee. Unless the two smarter guys can tell us where to measure from being that their talents are better than mine I will wait to hear from the committee.January 15, 2020 at 9:09 pm #6098
Success in this competition is based on perfect adherence to instructions and diagrams. The competition administrator gave conflicting instructions in the official documentation. To ask for clarification is natural and shows that the entrant actually took the time to read everything. David did everyone a service by asking the question.January 15, 2020 at 9:11 pm #6099
Hi David, drawings…being a tech myself, I can agree on complexity and even the schematics you are building from, tube I take it, are small too, but complex on it’s own merit and knowledge. Reading a diagram is what it is all about. What I find funny is all the drawings I have seen used for faceting or any mechanical drawing is they are to scale. Take the calipers and measure the drawing and calculate. Am I thinking to simple here and all those numbers, simple math again, How else does one figure out if they have enough material, math…can someone explain the volume formula and how that is used?January 15, 2020 at 9:40 pm #6100
The width of the stone in ALL cutting instructions is the W dimension and that is on the 96/48 axis.
Dan Lynch has inadvertently thrown a big spanner in the works by saying it’s not with this stone and that it’s on the junction between girdle facets G4 and G5. Hope you don’t mind me saying Dan, that is also wrong. If you were to measure the stone in that direction the widest point is between the junction of G5 and G6.
Just a quick comment from the land of fire and smoke.January 15, 2020 at 11:17 pm #6101
Got that wrong about the W dimension (width) always being on the 96/48 axis. I looked through the cutting instructions of the stones I had cut in recent years before making that comment and all had the width in the 96/48 axis. But in the US 2020 Masters and Novices stones the width is in the 24/72 axis.
Anyway in the Grand Masters stone it’s in the 96/48 axis and I will be competing in this section for the first time.January 16, 2020 at 1:02 am #6102
My, my, what a reaction. I apologize for not being more clear. If there was sarcasm, it was certainly not directed at the competitors, but at anyone who thinks a cutting review has to explain what the width measurement is. IMO, the review should not have tried to tell anyone how to measure the width.
Keep in mind that the reviews are not part of the rules. If they’re helpful, well and good. If not, ignore them.January 16, 2020 at 7:56 am #6103
Alan your answers have been very helpful. Figure it out by yourself and if I am not able to do that I should not be cutting in the Grandmaster class.
The confusion lies, at least for me, in that most competition stones are measured from flats and not points. Alan you have never competed in even a novice class so it does not matter at all to you. All you can do is give smart comments. I feel like forums should be helpful and positive but some people just want to be rude.
All I did by starting this thread is ask a simple question. Some of answers have not been helpful at all. Just rude comments. It might be that I am not worthy to compete in the Grandmaster class unless I can figure it by myself, at least that is what some members are saying indirectly.
Thanks guys.January 16, 2020 at 8:28 am #6104
Frank I think you have gave the best answer and I also agree with what you have said. At least there will be one flat which will make it easier to measure for the competitors and judges. Scott, I had measured the diagram with calipers and I found the width and length the same as the L/W is stated on the diagram 1.001. At least by one thousands.
I honestly do not see the problem with asking on this forum how to measure this stone. Obviously two members on this forum disagree. Neither gave a constructive answer, only criticism. I call that rude in my world.
Also I wanted to mention that the pdf pavilion diagram is not very clear like the Gemcad version. Perhaps someone can post a better pdf pavilion diagram for those that do not have Gemcad and want to compete.January 16, 2020 at 2:39 pm #6105
Alan Balmer, it is apparent since you never answered my original question that you did not know where to measure this stone. You and I both know that your original post was an attack on me for disagreeing with you on the new Ultra-tec thread saying that a Grandmaster or “candidate” should know how to measure that stone. I really do not see where you are qualified to even post on this thread never actually competed yourself. It is easy to criticize someone when you have not actually done it yourself. It is apparent to me that you have issues with anyone that disagrees with you. I would appreciate it if you would just leave me alone from now on. Be more professional than that.
I appreciate all the constructive answers the members have posted. At least we have many more Gentlemen participating on this forum than not. I had a good understanding on where the stone should be measured but only wished to have confirmation. Good luck everyone.January 16, 2020 at 4:02 pm #6106
David, you are wrong. As I said, my criticism was NOT directed at the competitors. It as certainly not directed at you. I didn’t mention any names – no reason for you to be defensive.
I did not answer the original question because it was about the discrepancy and confusion, and had to be answered by the author of the review.
I suppose you consider it payback of some kind to accuse me of not knowing the answer. I actually gave the answer, which is “Look at the diagram”.
It’s true that I have little interest in competition, but I’ve been in the part-time lapidary and mineral business for about 55 years, and a reasonably accomplished faceter for 15+.January 16, 2020 at 4:20 pm #6107
Got that wrong about the W dimension (width) always being on the 96/48 axis.
Yes, in my experience the width measurement is nearly always in the 24/72 dimension. I found it odd that the Grand Master design was 96/48.
most competition stones are measured from flats and not points
Actually, without doing an exhaustive study, I’d guess the opposite is true. Even the common SRB is a point-to-point measurement. In this year’s SSC, only the novice stone is measured from flats.January 16, 2020 at 4:38 pm #6108
Look at the diagram is no answer. Frank Woodward gave the correct answer.
” Surely a Grand Master candidate can interpret a GemCad diagram”
That statement was directed directly at me because I was the one that started this thread and you consider me a Grandmaster candidate. IT is obvious to me that the quote above was directed right at me. You are not even a certified Novice so it gives you no right to tell me what I should know and not know or anyone else that is a Grandmaster or “candidate”. Have you ever considered I may not be as smart as you or other candidate’s and was looking for some help. Your first post was not any help at all, just being sarcastic. You sir are no gentleman. From this thread there are others not as smart as yourself that also wanted some clarification. There is no reason to belittle me or them.
You owe us an apology but I am not expecting that from you.January 16, 2020 at 4:40 pm #6109
can someone explain the volume formula and how that is used?
(Sorry for the clumsy wordage – I don’t want to fool with html for the superscripts.)
“Volume divided by width cubed = N” is used to estimate the finished weight of a stone. So, Volume = N*width cubed. Cube W (in cm), multiply by N, then multiply by the specific gravity of the material. This gives you the estimated weight in grams.January 16, 2020 at 4:54 pm #6110
Also I wanted to mention that the pdf pavilion diagram is not very clear like the Gemcad version. Perhaps someone can post a better pdf pavilion diagram for those that do not have Gemcad and want to compete.
I agree, and I don’t know how those PDFs were generated. I’ve attached a pdf generated directly from GemCad. I’ve never done an attachment before – hope it works 🙂
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.January 16, 2020 at 7:44 pm #6112
“Even the common SRB is a point-to-point measurement.”
That is news to me. When I was in the gem and jewelry trade I always measured a mounted SRB diamond on the flats to give an estimate on the carat weight of the stone. If I were cutting a SRB for competition I would measure on the flats.
If I am wrong it would not be the first time it has ever happened. I would not be able to count the number of times I have been wrong in my lifetime.
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